70 impala 4 door - 350 225

Then went on to write:

So, if you agree that it is a matter of taste, then why do you care?

Nope. Ever hear the saying 'To each his own.'?

ANd FWIW, Oldsmobile made 7 4 door 4-4-2s in 1964. Too bad its a four door? No, I think those cars are worth a fair amount of money.

If your speeding down the road and no one is there to hear you, are you out racing?

Ok, you win anyways, I'm a freak.

Is this true? Were they actual 4-4-2's or were they Cutlasses with a police package? Just wondering.

The 4-4-2 was, just like the GTO and SS, an option on a different car when it was first introduced. The GTO got its own line in 66, the SS in 67, and the 4-4-2 in 68.

Now, the difference between the 4-4-2 and the others is that the 4-4-2 was initially a handling package. In 64, it stood for 4bbl, 4 speed, 2 exhaust. It was a Cutlass with a 330 and sway bars, essentially. It had sway bars from the get-go, unlike its siblings that did not get them standard until 70. A customer could go into an Olds dealer and order up a 4 door Cutlass (or F-85) and add a 4-4-2 option to it. The GTO was more of a performance and 'image' type of car (performance as in straight-line), so it was only available as a 2 door.

In 65, Olds changed the 4-4-2 to mean 4bbl, 400cid, 2 exhaust. It then became more like the GTO, a fast, semi-flashy car. There are production stats here: http://www.442.com/442figs.html

And looking at that again, it appears I miscounted. It appears that there were 10 4 doors. 7 Deluxe Sedans, and 3 F-85 Sedans (Olds called 2 door post cars 'sport coupes' or 'club coupes,' not sedans.

A customer could go into an Olds dealer and order up a

Hey, good, interesting facts.

But, what I'm getting at is why only ten then?

If they're so cool to some of you guys, why didn't more people order/buy them?

I think I answered the question earlier (Not trying to be smart here).

Now if 442's were all 4 doors, but only 10 were 2 doors - that would be a totally different story, I believe.

I'm sure the 4's are worth something. But only to a select few.

Personally, I saw a 70 442 at a indoor show this weekend. Blue/gold stripes. Guy said he put over $30K in it. It was very nice. Can't see doing that with a 4 door. Could you?

Only ten people saw fit to order them that way. Why only 5 69 Ram Air IV Judge convertables? Only five people wanted them. Now, everybody wants them and the guy that owns Ames Performance has two of them!

Rhetorical question, I assume.

But, given the choice, I'd rather have a two door. That doesn't mean I don't think that the 4 door is cool.

Well, looking at supply and demand, even if there is a 50,000 fold difference in who wants a 4-4-2 of 2 doors, the supply/demand ratio is still such that the 4 doors demand more money.

For me? No. That's just my take on it. But, it was a cool car. It was a rare car. But, I'd bet that he wouldn't be able to sell that 4-4-2 for what he put in it (unless it is a W-30 convertable, then only maybe). I would bet that he could get close to that for the 4 door, though.

My opinion: That car cost too much new and the advantages of it over lower optioned wasn't much. Besides you probably had to wait a time for it to be built and there were others the lots you could drive away. Back then, if you're talking racing wise, I doubt convertibles were big on the track or street. I can see wagons there, sure. Track, not street.

You really think so? If you had a 2 & 4 door exactly the same (even 442's) sitting next to each other. You think the 4 would be more? You're talking like the four door would sell faster and the 2 door would have a hard time moving. In theory, even if the 4 is rarer, it would still command a lower price to justify a sale. Unless it had some special historical past maybe.

The one I mentioned was a W30 hardtop. Personally, I wouldn't spend that much, didn't care for the colors either or style of bucket seats. I do believe it would take him awhile to find a buyer, much longer if it had 4 doors. I don't think he would have attempted to 'save' it. But he definately has a car that may pay off as an investment for himself and money wise.

You know, its funny, I do get where you're coming from but, you see all those 'muscle car' calanders and such out there. I've never seen one with a four door anything.

A lot of people 'settle' for the 4 version of some cars only because they could afford them and not the real thing.

Ever seen a 75 malibu 4 door with SS emblems painted on? I have, weak. Wannabe owners.

Ever seen a 59 impala 4 door? It looks 'slow' compared to its counterpart. For sure not worth more than.

<snip>

I see all of your points, and my opinions are pretty much inline with yours. But, rare cars are desirable to a point. Some people like rare cars because they are unique. Some people customize them. I saw a 68 GTO Wagon at the Nats in 97, and it looked really, really good. It was a vendor's car - I imagine he used it to carry parts. However, I have seen more than one of these cars that folks have made. Now, here is a production car that is extremely rare. I'm not saying it would move faster, because the consumer base would be much smaller. It isn't like you'd be selling to Joe Sixpack. You'd be more likely selling to folks like Floyd Garrett.

I don't know how this conversation ended up here... but I like it.

The truth to the whole story is that 4 door muscle cars aren't worth squat. Take a 64 Comet Caliente 2 door hardtop( mine http://www.magma.ca/~cowiewnf/mercury.html ) and compare the value of it against the 4 door version. You would have trouble giving away the 4 door. As for a 4 door Oldsmobile Cutlass Vs. a 2 door... check this page out if you want the facts( http://www.442.com/carsforsale.html ). ( Four door cars were for your grandparents and 2 door cars were sporty.)

I'm surprised that Olds didn't limit the package to the two door models, it's nice to know that once upon a time there was an automaker interested in building factory 'sleepers'.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against 2 doors, in fact I've got three vehicles at present and all three of them are the two door body style. If I could somehow be transported back to 1965 I would most likely order a 2 door with big engine/handling package etc (but no scoops, stripes) but now that it's over thirty years later I happen to think that any original car is more valuable than a 'restored' (whatever that means these days) model, regardless of body style. To each his own I guess.

-Nipper 91 Ford PU (it may be ugly but it sure is slow) 73 Duster (in about 2000 pieces, for the time being) 73 Malibu (what's a nice car like this doing at MY house?)